Some Words to Know

Mesmerize - to hypnotize, dazzle and control
Ravish - to transport with joy or delight or force to have sex without one's will
Woe - grief, sorrow, misery, heavy calamity
Propensity - bias, bent, tendency
Aphorism - general truth expressed in concise saying
Deterent - that which prevents or deters
Sluice - an opening or channel through which anything flow
Wary - cautious, apprehensive, guarding against danger
Detriment - that which injuries or cause damage, michief or harm
Philstine - a person deficient in liberal culural refinement
Embellish - to decorate or make beautiful
Quibble - to raise an insignificient point
Abut - to border, be contagious, to meet
Encumbered - burdened, weighed down
Eddy - a current of water or air moving in a circular direction
Asperity - harshness, roughness of temper
Bequest - that which is left by will, esp. personal property
Restitution - a sum of money paid in compensation for loss or injury
Strop - a piece of leather used for sharpening
Fulminate - to make a loud, sudden noise, to send forth decrees with force or authority
Repugnant - hostile, disposed to war, offensive
Anhedonic - unable to experience pleasure
Diminutive - below the average size, very small, little
Lustrous - shining (particularly from reflected light), glittering, bright
Languid - dropping or flagging from exhaustion, weak, without animation
Unsullied - unspoiled, pure
Inebraited - drunk
Scurrilous - using indecent language, offensive
Discombobulated - confused, and may be a little upset
Wizened - dried, shriveled, withered
Desist - to cease to proceed or act to stop
Emaciate - to become or to cause to become very thin
Bastion - a fortified place
Welter - to rise and fall as waves, to tumble over
Lurk - to lie in wait, to keep out of sight
Argot - Jargon, lingo, the lg of a particular class, register

Enhancing the Department of English

Some Strategies for Enhancing the Department of English of
Janamaitri Multiple Campus

Strategy 1
Make all teachers accessible to modern technology (ICTs), especially to the computer and the Internet.
For this:
- Email Id
- Use of Email and the use various required websites such websites for e-discussion
- Introduction to the websites useful for teachers
- Discussion on the use of Internet for developing teachers competence

Strategy 2
Encourage all teachers to be researchers
For this:
- Habit of reading and writing before teaching
- Habit of reading and writing after teaching
- Encourage for research oriented teaching
- Motivate for research oriented writing
- Training on research methodology
· Institutions that provide grants for faculty/fresh researchers
· Institutions that publish research articles/findings

Strategy 3

English language training for teachers

For this:
- Use of ICTs, especially computer and Internet for enhancing English language for teachers
- Introduction/approach to the institutions that provide training to teachers
· British Council
· NELTA
- Encourage/facilitate teachers to be trainers
· Encourage/opportune to be trainee first

Strategy 4
English language training for students
For this:
- Co-curricular activities for improving English
· Written activities
· Spoken activities
- English language training package for students
· Seasonal training package (Winter, Summer, Spring …)
· Session training package (Pre-session, While-session, Post-session)
1. Form a committee of teachers
2. Prepare training materials
3. Devise training package for different levels
- Decide by giving placement tests and enrollment level of the students
- Make students familiar with ICTs and use of them for improving English
- Introduce how to practice English using commercial software such as CDs of TOEFL and GRE


Materials and support

- A separate room
- A computer (laptop if possible) and a projector which can be of the Campus belonging to all the Departments
- Some books
- Facility for printing and Xeroxing
- A hall for making presentations and conducting trainings
- Full moral and academic support from campus administration with trust and confidence

not the man to be spared and neglectd

I have told you earlier that
One day you will recognize me
you will find me who am i
know my caliber and understand
my immaculate professionalism

you became so foolish
and even today i am not sure
that you have understood the things
you have been like i am
but at least you have now
realized that i am not a man
to be spared, to be neglected
i am not the man to be compared
with many who were not
of my kind, all like you
who have the upbringings
in sychophancy, bootlicking and
all lived for themselves and never
for other, never for the society
I also live for myself but you know
there is self inside me
an inspiration inside me
that makes me that is not
me as you have seen
there lives a great soul
with extreme ambition
and enthusiasm that never
atrophies, never exhausts and
that never gives up when all
altruist and scholars give up
because of the people like you
my soul waits for the day when
your soul recognizes mine and
your habit of bootlicking turns into
me and you start to sing my song
and i don't receive your praise happily
but with comments and makes you realize
that you and me are same
you and others whom you toaded yesterday
are the same like you
all people born with enough potential
to be great persons but some
become like you and some become
like me but at the end all become same
whent environemnt conducive like this
emerges automatically and you realize
that i am not the man
to be spared and to be neglected

I received MPhil Convocation

On 23rd of October 2009 I received MPhil award conferred by Kathmandu University, Nepal on completion of the course prescribed by the University and dissertation entitled Recognition, Accreditation, and Vlidation of Non-formal and Informal Learning: Prospects for Lifelong Learning in Nepal.

Vijaya Dashami, 2066

I celebrated this Dashain more happily than ever. I reached home on September 25. The first day of Dashain i.e. Mahastami was on October 26. I was happy with my father, mother, spouse, and daughters. We stayed at home shared happiness and took delicious food items.

On the third day i.e. Vijaya Dashami all of the family members received tika and Jamara from their respective seniors. I received them from my father, mother, thuldai, thulivauju, maildai, mailivauju, uncle and aunt. I granted tika and Jamara to Laxmi, Bishu, Rishav, Sakuntala, Bhupendra, Sanubhai, Sadikshya, Samikshya, Parbati, Krishna, Sushila, Gautam, Rabindra, etc. I got a lot of blessings from my seniors. That was a very important day for me.

On the next day of Dashami we went to Aaru to the house of my in-laws. I received tika from all the members thir, shared happiness and took delicious food items.

Next day leaving our beloved daughters to their maternal home Laxmi and me came to Kathmandu.

September 9 to October 1

It has been a month that I have not blogged any of the activities that went on from september 12, 2009. Perhaps the most important achievements of my life have gaken place in those days.
On September 9
Department of English Education, Janamaitri Multiple Campus called a meeting at 8AM. Almost all of the members of the Department including campus chief Mr. Bhola Nath Ojha and HOD Baburam Bhusal were present in the meeting. The meeting focused on how to make the Department more effective, efficient and better respossile for the overall development of the campus.
Mr. Ojha, the campus chief congratulated me for my contribution to achieve an outstanding result of the examination of B. Ed. 1st year. All the students had passed the examination given by Tribhuvan University with excellent scores.
That was the first meeting that I agreed with the HOD and the HOD agreed with me. Perhaps, that was one of the incidences in the history of the Depatment that we two came in consensus. All the members of the Department were happy and committed to do someting for the identity and influence in the Campus.
On September 10
Janamaitri Multiple Campus had called all the teachers for Happiness Sharing programme on tha auspcious occasion of Vijaya Dashami 2066. We went early in the morning for, however, there were no program as such. Just something were being cooked in the canteen. Actually the teachers didn't know why they were being called. However, we talked and shared our best wishes individually and returned to the respective residence taking a plate of beaten rice and meat as breakfast. But I was planning to go to KUSOED to meet my Dissertation Supervisor. Bhaktiram Ghimire sir gave me a lift and I reaced at KUSOED at 10 AM.
As soon as I reached KUSOED I read the notices. With a great surprise and sad I came to know that the time for my convocation was already fixed for October 23 and the one who wouldn't be able to have their dissertation submitted to Dhulikhel (the Controller of Examinations, KU) by October 9 wouldn't be able to take part in the convocation. I regreted for the intentional delay I had made during this year. Had I been little concious about that I would have defensed viva-voce two months earlier. But I didn't do. Tanka sir encouraged me to do even better, go deeper and deeper, but the time has already been .... Sadenned with the notice I met Prof. Shreeram Prasad Lamichhane. He read just the contents of the dissertation I had prepared to that date. I had expected that he would read the report and would provide me suggestions so that I could improve them so as to make that as final draft. Nevertheless, I was happy since he gave me some constructive suggestions to make the dissertation report coherent and logical.
Then I came back and started to work day and night. I wrote and wrote, typed and typed until and unless I became completely chilled inside my chest. I used to go to the be laid down but I couldb't sleep because my chest was burning and the brain was pushing me to work.
With the corrections made according to his suggestions and giving the final touch to the report from my side I met him the next time. He made a cursory look to the report and made some important corrections. Gave some suggestions to standardize, especially the language. But finally he said that it was impossible to have viva before October 9 and I couldn't be able to take part in the convocation of KU scheduled to be held on 23 October.
On September 20
I phoned Prof. Tanka Nath Sharma early in the morning and requested to manage time and provide me the opportunity to be an awarde of my degree by letting me to take part in the convocation. He became so angry at first and made an outright "No" because it was too late to do everything. But his kind heart softened and he let me explained my obligations and compulsions. He said at the end that there was a little chance and he would try his best to schedule the date of my Viva immediately after the Dashain vacation.
Then I phoned Prof. Shreeram Lamichhane and narrated the conversation I had made with Prof. Sharma.
On September 22
Though the vacation for Dashain was alreaded commenced, I had made a hearty request to Professor Lamichhane to provide me some times so that I could bring my endevours to the fruition on time. He came to KUSOED and we discussed nearly one and half hour. He appreciated to the efforts I have made to write the dissertation report. He happily said ....would like to take PhD out of it..... you have written so beautifully ...... you have to make a monograph and give it to UNESCO to publish.... etc. Finally he said that they were happy to receive such a dissertation from me. They would try their best to have my viva defensed before October 9.
Then I came to my residence and corrected, added, deleted ... and made a final copy to be submitted to the external examiner.
On September 23
Having all the preparations completed I was about to leave Kathmandu valley on September 24 for the celebrations of Dasahin. My better-half Laxmi was waiting for the arrival of my day. I did some shopping and went to the nearby cyber for checking emails.
As soon as I opened the inbox I saw an email from Manjula, an officer in South Asian University. The subject was an Offer of Appointment. I was overwhelmed and flooded with happincess. It was a really an appointment letter from the CEO Prof. G. K. Chadha. I went through the terms and conditions and became extremely glad. That was the most important achievment of my life. I found the pray of my father the affection of my mother, the wishes of my father in law and mother in law, love of my beloved wife and the aspirations of all of my best friends and relatives have come true. That was the day I realized that my hardwork and intelligence being fully accounted. From a part time teacher at Janamaitri I had been able to achieve the post of Project Associate (Academics and Documentations) of the prestigious SAARC University. A teacher had turned into a curriculum developer and an academic learder of the SAARC region that includes, not one but, 8 countries of the South Asia.
I shared my happiness with all whom I could contact by phone. I told to Laxmi, Sandai, my father ..... etc.
Then the next day I wrote an acceptance letter to Prof. Chadha and left Kathmandu for the celebration of Dashain.

Blacksmiths should be the experts in the Department of Ironware

Transcription of Interview 8

Date: August 21, 2009 (Friday) Time: 5:30 PM to 6:5 AM

Researcher: Sir, how should we see the relation among formal, non-formal and informal learning?

Respondent: We can perceive the issue you have raised from different perspectives. If we perceive formal learning, non-formal and informal learning through complimentary design you have to take … for example … I study in Grade 1 but I can’t go to school today because I have to graze cow, then I need to have something that compensates my today’s class such as self module package, radio, peers’ facilitation design, cassette … whatever may be … you will find two three ways to complement each other…the first is, non-formal learning mode should be taken along with formal learning.

Researcher: Should it be done sir?

Respondent: Yes, we can do and we should do. I can give you an example, in Canada the students of 11/12 must go through open mode, have to take certain course…there is relation between them; on the basis of the evaluation of both formal and non-formal mode he/she is awarded. The second way asserts that informal education can be found everywhere. A person who grazes cow can be scientist, sociologist, economist, etc. on grazing cows. The student thinks on how he could link his knowledge with the knowledge imparted by the teacher. The teacher has to ask to complete the project on the science of cow grazing, sociology of cow grazing and economics of cow crazing. In this way, teacher can link informal learning with the formal learning. On the basis of that he/she should be certified. You can take many designs practiced in the world such as in China (Learner-Farmer), America (Farm Learning) and Britain (Foreign Visit).

Learning becomes lifelong process when we let students think, not by providing them food. We shouldn’t give material; rather we should give questions to them. They need to have access with materials to find the answers of the questions. For example, a reaper can practice mathematics while cutting grass as he/she should conjecture on the basis of the number of the strands of grasses in a bundle he/she makes. If the strands are thicker, a less amount of strands can make a bundle. There is also a type of lifelong learning.

Researcher: Despite these philosophical aspects of the phenomenon, what problem would you see on the ‘How’ aspect? How to carry out all these endeavors?

Respondent: Our existing one-sided mind doesn’t work. Our teachers have to understand that lesson learnt in school and the lesson learnt at home are the same; the only difference between informal and formal learning is only the value given to them, the things are the same. The teachers have to understand that and I think the problem will be solved immediately.

Researcher: You mean that … when you say teachers should understand the things… you wanted to say how can we adapt informal learning into the formal structure of education?

Respondent: The concept of equivalency came from the concept of structure. If we create a design to test ability, structure becomes not so important. For me structure is secondary thing. Personally, I am against the structural system. The primary thing is ability of a person. He/she can be able from any means. The teachers shouldn’t care how and where the students learnt, rather they should care what they learnt. If a student can answer the questions in an exam apt to test the ability desired he/she should be declared pass.

Researcher: If so, then what type of mechanism should be developed to test their ability? Does the present mechanism can function for this?

Respondent: We can take the example of the system of assessing the ability of students in TU and KU. In the M. Phil. and PhD programs of these universities the questions are selected, administered, examined, and awards are given by themselves. The boards of examination are jut to put stamp. It is the ability of TU and KU program runners to do so. So, what I wanted to say is that our teachers, our parents, our student, etc. have to groom to that level of thinking.

Researcher: Sir, do you think the learners who came informally and non-formally be equivalent with the ones who came formally?

Respondent: You raised a nice issue. One of the negative aspects of formal education is averaging the people. Men can never be average. If formal learning and informal learning are not average, then the products of these two modes of learning should get equivalent certificated, not equal certificate.

Researcher: If so then can we say that, they should be given equivalent certificates and from the employment point of view …

Respondent: Employment is related to the market. Market is changeable according to time. We can’t accommodate changes in educational structure. It makes curriculum, it can’t be new. Formal school has such rigidity. I am at the side of teaching learner to haunt the market not to fit in the market. What I believe is that market runs faster than school. To update them short-term training and updated material can be used. The idea of updating them by colleges and schools is a traditional concept.

Researcher: Sir, do you mean that the learners from any mode of learning should determine the market….?

Respondent: Learners should make his/her own market. They should be able to create his/her demand himself/herself in the market. The important thing is making people skillful according to the changing demand of time. Trying to make people fit in the existing context is not good. Individuals should be made capable.

Researcher: What the state has to do to make individuals capable?

Respondent: I don’t see other thing rather than deploying capable teachers. Neither teachers have been able to create the environment conducive for that nor interact properly with the existing environment. Something different has attracted them. If they follow a political incumbent they will be promoted and rather than teaching if they dictate notes to the students they will also pass. Without reading and writing they have been able to be professor. What the state could have done for eliminating this tendency is that a good culture should have developed. Decentralization of authority could be one of the solutions.

Researcher: Sir, can we develop a national qualifications framework by incorporating all types of informal learning even indigenous knowledge and skills and leveling them on the basis of complexity to learn as it has been done by the countries of European Union in the form of EQF?

Respondent: Everything has its culture. In Europe students are valued in terms of the competence they have acquired. But in our country if we do so the students, parents, politicians and even teachers who are their relatives become combative against the teachers who have credited the students on the basis of competence. The teachers in those countries seek for quality otherwise they don’t sign, but in here the teachers don’t do so. The teachers in those countries are equally accountable. A certificate given by the teacher of France is given equal value in Denmark and Finland. Because of cultural difference I can’t say that we can do as it is being done in Europe but what I hope is that if the people of our kind can make this voice heard it can be done. If teachers are made accountable for quality control we can certainly establish a standard as it has been done by the Europeans.

Researcher: Sir, if we make the provision of certifying indigenous knowledge and skills, will it increase or decrease the value that they have got so far?

Respondent: I think it will increase the value. For example, in America, an angler acquires PhD in fishing, what I claim is that the anglers in Nepal are already PhD; only what they need is new technology and ability to write. There is no harm in accrediting his/her skill. The blacksmith in Nepal and the ironsmith of America are of the same category. The blacksmith of Nepal does know in what temperature he should hammer on the anvil, what he needs is what degree of temperature is the hotness that makes him feel that that was the right temperature for pouring water on the sickle being prepared. If we can fit in his knowledge with the technology he can be better product than the university graduate. If we have a university of this type he can be the expert in the Department of Ironware. We have been shouting for that but the problem is social stigma that has attached with us. Knowledge is not a threat but the stigma.

Researcher: As you said, then, a priest and a cobbler can fall at the same level in terms of their expertise in their respective skills….

Respondent: Exactly the same, yes the same. The priests and the cobbler need to update their knowledge and skills. The priest should be motivated to unravel the mysteries behind his ritual performance. We have to create an environment that provides an impetus for him to explore the knowledge behind such ritual endeavors. The priest knows that to worship Mars he has to use red vermilion powder but he doesn’t know that the planet Mars is red. He doesn’t know what NASA has discovered. Though the knowledge he is holding emerged before NASA had established, he doesn’t know what has happened so far. What I have been saying is that our priest have been using black powder for worshipping Saturn, one day NASA will discover that Saturn is black. Our norms and values are superior to Western norms and values but the ones who are supposed to plunge into the field and give new flavor are following as though they are blind. Our education system has not been able to make the priests believe that their knowledge is superior to the knowledge discovered by NASA. We are wealthier that Europe, we have been lagging behind because we are trying to carry on the Western knowledge…despite being attached with only English and Nepali language can’t we open a Language University to foster all the indigenous language of the nation?

Researcher: Sir, how do you think we should assess the knowledge and skill of informal and non-formal learners?

Respondent: As I told you earlier, the market will assess them. The case of certification and taking it equivalent with formal learning certificate it is a psychological aspect. For self-satisfaction the certificate can be used, otherwise it’s the market to decide whether they are viable or not, useful or not for the market. Market makes them update knowledge.

Researcher: Sir, finally, what do you think we should do to enhance lifelong learning in our context?

Respondent: I think it’s easy. For example, if we say to the people that if you do some kind of research and write on that then I will publish your writing then they will be learning for that. If we say a person that you have seen so many insects in day-to-day life, take a camera, snap as many different types of insects as you could see throughout your life, study them and make a report, on the basis of which you will be granted with PhD in entomology, what problem will be there? I don’t think that will be wrong. If we equip person with technology and enable them to write they will be learning throughout their life.

Researcher: Thank you very much sir!

An American Dream

Nearly five years have past

It has become more and more vast

There is no day that comes at last

Unless the landmine of your heart blast

The dreamland has been a slum

Recession has not yet come

It has hooked his dream

Without testing an American icecream

Many people landed there

It has been now not clear

I have the fear

I don't want Mexican bear

Many people are petrifying their heart

Many are finding the ways to start

They want our rupees for dollar convert

13000 for an exam makes me inert

Looking for the victory of truth

Heart desires and the hope burgeons
Far in the distance there is a tree of money
Mind demotivates and the desires fades away
There are they who I love a lot
I should do the one not to be done
Because they need grounds to play

Interruption of regular work for a week
Volatality in the mind, heart trembles
Audacity foils but there is nothing to do
Great pain is at the home
The neighborhood could be soothing
But uncertain whether I should sell
The pride, the dignity and something special

Somebody calls me from New Delhi
I promised to write soon
Voice trembles, the lips mumbles
Junior in post, feeble in work
I am afraid because I have a pain
At my home and thinking that
The neighbor hood soothes

There is enimity, there is hostility
But a latchery and flattery I have
Made because I have to give them
A ground to play

For more than 4 years I am doing something
At the home, it is not my home but I am staying
I never felt as though it was my home
But I am compelled to work at the backyard of the home
I wanted to be in the frontward but
There are people more forward than me
In sychophancy, bootlicking, and
They have a good relation with them

I have been a weaker many of the times
In the eyes of people, both good and bad
I have been a loser many of the times
Among the ones who have camoflauged
The true world and in the pond of sinisters
They have been on the swimming suit
I am at the side looking at them
And thinking for the way out
For finding the better place
Where there will be the victory of truth
Good people will be on the suit
Working for the the humanity

Faded with the world around I recall
Full with optimism I hope for the place
I don't like that but I hope to go there
Because I nood to have a playground for them
There is pain at my home
I need a stepping stone for
Taking a giant leap to the world where
The truth gets the victory

Looking for what is not seen

If you have to see his attraction don't look at him
Because you may not find what you are looking for
He may not have worn beautiful apparel inside
He may not have gorgeous face-skin inside
He may not have shining boot inside

If you have to see his courage don't look at him
The mighty sword might have rusted inside
The giant canon may have broken inside
The bows and may have lost inside
His wide chest and muscle decayed inside

If you have to see his intelligent don't look at him
The brain may be full of crime and murder
The nerves may be full of criminal emotions
His mind may be ready for blood saturation
His wisdom might have been in defunct maturation

To understand his words don't look at it
But the meaning between them
The meaning of his reality
The meaning of his world
The meaning of his perspective
Hostility, anger, revenge
Don't try to change
But a journey to manage!!!

It's my family and we are enjoying the first birthday of our lovely daughters.

A father looks at her daughter!

How it looks? They are my twin daughters. They are playing in the place where monkeys play. We are celebrating their first birthday. It's under the great statue of Buddha at Swayambh.

Hi, it's Kapil and the background picture you see is the beautiful hill of Palpa. I snaped this before 4 months when I was in a short project to Tarai.

It looks nice, doesn't it?

Two Different Worlds

Two worlds one is yours and the other mine
I am not poor but you see you are only fine
Different are the eyes different are the mind
Different are the legs and different hand

You collect money I collect wisdom
You collect friend but I collect friendship
You look for fruits but I grow fruit-tree
You want to be rich but I am free

There is god for you but I see him everywhere
My gods are in slums but yours in temples
You become happy at the hunger of my gods
You chuckkle around the empty pots of my lords

In the empty stomach you make dine
You start to convert 5 into nine
Your would be the earth but
The world would be mine!

Transcription of Interview 7

Transcription of Interview 7
Date: July 19, 2009 (Saturday) Time: 11 AM to 11:30 AM
Researcher: Sir, let me put my first curiosity. It seems that we have focused more on formal education? Are non-formal and informal learning important as equally as formal learning? Do you think the three forms of learning are equal? If not, what do you think we should do to make them equally important?
Respondent: Thank you for this opportunity. Well, I think to address this issue we have to see the history of education. Informal learning is the beginning of education. Gradually, people realize that informal education couldn’t deliver knowledge completely. To compensate this formal education came into practice. The foundation of our knowledge or education is informal education. If you see the intellectual development of an individual roughly 80% of learning comes informally. So informal learning leads our life and it is enhanced by formal and non-formal education. The basics of our knowledge are informal. Formal education adds value to these basics. If formal education system misses out something and is unable to provide appropriate delivery then only we go to non-formal education. That’s why, I think, the concept of giving importance to either one or the other modes of learning is not so important. The three modes of learning take place in the life of all individuals.
The knowledge and skill that is delivered through societal and family system is informal learning. The society gave the responsibility of providing knowledge on the basis of contextual relation to formal education. Before 4/5 hundred years ago the responsibilities of delivering formal knowledge was taken by religion and some social institutions. Therefore, if you take the things in this sense the formal education system emerged as an alternative of informal education system. In the due course of time the system of schooling developed. In this way schools came as an agent of education to deliver knowledge which the family was not able to deliver.
Schooling could sole some of the problems but as all the people couldn’t have access to school and schools didn’t fit for the ones who were in different social context. For imparting knowledge to them the non-formal education system developed as another facet of formal education. Thus non-formal and formal educations are in complementary relationship. Non-formal is not the thing to challenge formal education.
Sometimes the issue of formal, non-formal and informal learning has to bees seen through the state-relation perspective. Informal education grows as per the interest of a family or a society. Schooling is organized by a state. So school is a state agency, it’s a state business because it quenches the thirst of the state. The state uses it to fulfill its objectives. Hence informal is societal business and formal is state business. Non-formal overlaps to them. Sometimes it is societal business and sometimes state-business. Broadly, non-formal and formal are in state-territory whereas informal education is in non-state territory.
So far as the issue of recognition of one mode of learning to another mode of learning, formal education deserves credit and it is compatible and comparable. Its recognition is transferable. It claims value in a concrete manner. But the credit award system of non-formal education is not so concretized and recognized. It doesn’t have any recognized framework. The requirement of non-formal education in different parts of the world may be different. Thus, one the basis of global family need, for survival need, there is informal education and formal education is attached to it. And non-formal education takes place when formal education is inadequate to deliver the desired knowledge to the desired people. So formal education is defined and shaped by curricular framework but non-formal education goes beyond such curricular framework. On the basis of recognition formal education is globally recognized because it is comparable, compatible and standardized.
Researcher: Sir, can we recognize non-formal and informal learning as formal learning? If yes, how should it be done?
Respondent: There is nothing as such. It can be done but a number of things have to be done for this. The credit system has to be concretized. The value of education that has been attached to formal education has also to be given to non-formal education. We have to go in a comparable credit system which is called accreditation. For accreditation we have to consider some of the important things for example content load, mode of delivery, authenticity of assessment, etc. Formal system defines and concretizes the knowledge gained by an individual and certifies it.
In the context of Nepal some efforts have been made to recognize non-formal learning. Non-formal participants have got chance to enter into formal education system. Attempts have been made to make non-formal and formal education comparable. We have tried to put non-formal education in an accreditation system. For making non-formal education creditable like formal education it must adopt some of the vital features of formal education such as examination, curriculum, etc. If they are not made so they can’t be made comparable. Without making them comparable one can’t replace another.
Researcher: Sir, can we recognize the learning achievements of informal learners and certify them as formal learners? For example, if a person, who has never gone to school, claims that s/he has knowledge and skills equivalent to the one who has passed Bachelor Degree? What problems do you see certify his/her existing knowledge and to allow him/her to enroll in Master Degree?
Respondent: You have to see the relation between knowledge and certificate through a different perspective. Knowledge is a fundamental thing. To make it instrumental we need to certify it. Knowledge is what one knows, what s/he can do or perform. So knowledge is axiomatic, grows informally. It is not all the time necessary that it should be certified. Certification is needed only when we have to make value transfer of need mobility from one form to another. People used to prove their ability and talent by doing some extraordinary thing in the past. Only to make it instrumental such provision of certification was brought. That’s why what I believe is that certificate doesn’t represent the knowledge of an individual in its totality.
If we use certificate to value knowledge, then the certificate can undermine knowledge itself. What is considered important is certificate rather than knowledge. Knowledge has its ingenuity. We can’t compare certificate with ingenuity. What I have seen is that the most fundamental part is knowledge and experience of an individual. Just to make it representative it has been converted into certificate. Moreover, in order to recognize traditional value and norms we don’t need to certify it. Certificate itself is a testimony; nonetheless, it can sometime give misrepresentation. It has many flaws. It can’t represent the total knowledge of an individual. For example, in SLC examination one-third of the total knowledge is able to provide the certificate. First of all 100% itself is not the total knowledge of an individual. Even if we consider it a total knowledge, just one-third is enough for the certificate. We shouldn’t see totality of knowledge in certificate. They don’t have one to one relation. If we do so it may mislead.
In my opinion, in the case of traditional knowledge, wisdom and skill it has to go on getting values as it has been getting since past. As far as modern education system is concerned the certification has got credit because it has given global mobility and transferability of one’s knowledge and skill. Now-a-days people have started talking about decertification. Rather than giving importance to certificate we have to consider knowledge, skill and competence of an individual.
Researcher: If s/he without certificate has knowledge, skill and competence equivalent to the one who has done Bachelor Degree…
Respondent: Yes, that is what it should be. Certificate is an artificial arrangement only. It is not an absolute truth. The absolute truth is knowledge. We have been using certificate because we don’t have other alternative to see the absolute truth. Had there been a better option certificate wouldn’t have been used. The reason behind decertification is that it hasn’t made a reliable representation as expected. But it doesn’t mean that we have to destabilize the existing system.
Researcher: Sir, let me put you related but a bit different issue. As you said earlier people acquire knowledge and skill, no matter whether they acquire through forma, non-formal or informal means. Then, can we identify such knowledge and skill and keep them in a single National Qualifications Framework and level them as per the complexity in acquiring them in order to make all three forms of learning equivalent?
Respondent: It’s an interesting facet but it may have some unwanted consequences. For example, the knowledge system as a whole may inclined towards commercialization. Indigenous knowledge may be commercialized. It is potential rather than commercial. It is a non-commercial asset. I don’t think it should be treated as a commodity. If we use it as a commodity it may lose its ground. I think if we start treating indigenous knowledge it won’t posses its wisdom and preciousness. Indigenous knowledge has been preserved in the form of religion, culture and the faith of an individual. If we start certifying them it may lose it value. If we give monetary value to indigenous knowledge it may develop a negative tradition. Therefore, every time certificate may not provide value to informal learning.
Our indigenous knowledge deserves value without certificate. If we go on certifying the vast treasure of knowledge our ancestors preserved and transferred to us it will be a great injustice. Thus, certification can go against justice. To go for monetary system certification is needed but if certification gets space in spiritual values it may develop some kind of negative tradition.
Researcher: Sir, in order to preserve and promote such knowledge and skill what should be done?
Respondent: The most important thing is trust. We have to build up trust. The society moves on trust. For example, one goes to visit doctor because of trust. The patient doesn’t see the certificate of the doctor. We have to be accountable to the trust. Sometimes certificate can work as an instrument of trust but it can’t be the replacement of trust. Trust is virtue. So, we have to promote indigenous knowledge and skill in terms of trust.
We are bound by a kind of code-of-conduct. It has been working without certificate on the basis of faith system. If we keep everything on certificate and move accordingly we may lose many precious things of our culture and tradition. Furthermore, the tendency will degrade the given value of the indigenous knowledge.
If we respect indigenous knowledge in its own status it gets value but when we try to certify them some artificial knowledge may outwit such precious wisdom. I mean to say the artificial knowledge of an individual that s/he uses to get certificate may replace his/her real knowledge.
Researcher: Finally, what should we do to enhance lifelong learning and continuing education in the context of Nepal?
Respondent: The issue you have raised in very crucial. The main thing is how to make knowledge functional. If there is a positive relation between knowledge and its function it will enhance lifelong learning and continuing education but if it is not knowledge can deteriorate. Retention and promotion of knowledge is its application. In a professional community or organization we have to drive knowledge to its fullest we have to create a system of knowledge sharing and cross breading in order to make knowledge and skill functional. Our knowledge and skill can be multiplied by sharing. The system of sharing is needed in order to make our knowledge and skill contemporaneous. Knowledge earned 10 years ago may not be the same knowledge earned today and the knowledge likely to be earned after 10 years. There is no absolute truth in the world. Truth differs according to time and space. If a doctor has a certificate that s/he achieved 5 years ago it represents his/her knowledge of that time. The knowledge may not be functional if it is not made up-to-date. It may not give appropriate service and may culminate into unfavorable consequences. Therefore, knowledge has to be made contemporaneous. Thank you very much.
Researcher: Thank you very much sir for your time and valuable inputs for my research.

Transcription of interview 6

Transcription of interview 6
Date: July 18, 2009 (Saturday) Time 6 PM to 7:30 PM
Researcher: Madam Namaste!
Respondent: Namaskar sir. How are you doing?
Researcher: Well Ma'm. I finished transcribing an interview and waiting for you.
Respondent: That's right. I am ready. You can go ahead.
Researcher: Ma'm, in your opinion should we make people free to acquire knowledge and skill through all three modes of learning? If yes, how can we make people free to acquire knowledge through formal, non-formal and informal means?
Respondent: Yes we can. For this regard there should be collective effort from individual, community, government all.
Researcher: Should we make all these three forms equally important?
Respondent: yes. The most important is the individual him/herself. S/he should have learning attitude. After that other comes later. Otherwise it does not make sense.
Researcher: O k Madam. What do you think a nation should do to take all these forms in an equal footing?
Respondent: Nations effort is another important aspect. The nation should have clear policy, resources and other essential things. Though the nation’s attention is on formal education basically however, they have non-formal education program too. They should make it more effective providing more choices. About informal....they can do different program, campaign.... Actually lifelong learning is learning through the life which is possible in different context. Continuing education is one of the contexts.
Researcher: Thank you Ma'm. In your opinion should we provide certification to informal learners as equivalent to formal ones? If yes, how should their knowledge and skills should be assessed?
Respondent: This is the very important question and most essential thing too. In Nepal that kind of provision is rare. To make it more relevant they have to find out the practices of other countries and make the policy. In the US the community college provide that kind of knowledge and skills. Besides this the universities also conduct Adult education.... and continuing education program on regular basis....
Researcher: What problems do you see in identifying and recognizing indigenous knowledge in Nepal?
Respondent: The medium of mass education is said to be formal education, moreover in the context of Nepal without formal education we cannot imagine education system as a whole. But if we see the history of education and current international practices we can find entirely a different scenario. So, what I think is lifelong learning and continuing education, in a sense, is non-formal education and informal learning. We can take formal education for a very limited period of time. These two forms of learning are the constituents of lifelong learning. People can’t continue their formal education because of family problems but their knowledge and skills need to be updated and the only way to do this is non-formal and informal learning. Informal learning takes place wherever we go and whatever we do. To enhance it the place where people work or spend time should have learning environment.
Researcher: Can we provide eligibility for informal learners to enter into formal education system? For example, a person has never gone to school, neither college but s/he claims that s/he has the knowledge equivalent to the one who has passed Bachelor Degree through regular schooling. Can we allow the former to get admission in Master Degree? If yes, what type of mechanism should be developed?
Respondent: This is the most important and relevant issue. If a nation can do this it will be very good asset for it overall development. Because of the lack of such system a person who has skill and knowledge is deprived of opportunity because of the lack of certificate. As a consequence an individual, his/her society and as a whole the nation is in loss. What I have heard and read is that some people who have not even passed SLC are better, especially in mathematics, than a graduation holder. I think a country has to take such cases seriously. In our country, I think because of political instability these things are overshadowed. There should be a platform so as to provide opportunity for an individual to assess his/her knowledge and skill. A kind of placement test can be administered and on the basis of his/her performance he/she should be given an equivalent certificate.
Researcher: What type of problem do you think will come while recognizing various types of indigenous knowledge in a diversified nation like ours?
Respondent: Caste system – one of the negative aspect of Hinduism – can bring some problems. Caste system emerged out of works people did in the past. While the works of all the people are made equivalent in terms of the skill and knowledge needed it may bring some social conflict but I don’t think racial discrimination will be a major problem because of the government effort and public awareness. But there are chances of racial conflict so the proposed plan for recognition and validation of indigenous knowledge and skill should work in such way that it will minimize the chances of social conflict by changing our educational policy.
Researcher: Can we develop a National Qualifications Framework as the nations of European Union have done? What problems do you see to identify and list out all types of knowledge and skill – formal, non-formal, and informal- and keep them under a single framework so as to make the system of accreditation comfortable?
Respondent: It is relevant and necessary thing of our time. I think universities in Nepal have to design courses by analyzing the course of international universities so as to provide recognition and accreditation. Knowledge and skills should be made universally acceptable both inside and outside Nepal, otherwise it will bring problem. I think Nepal government should take this seriously. National Qualifications Framework should be developed with the help of proper indicators and it should also include the ways of assessing one’s knowledge, skills and competence.
Researcher: In the case of lifelong learning which form of learning – formal, non-formal and informal – do you think is more important? If you think they are equally important than how can we make them so in the context of Nepal?
Respondent: I think these three forms of learning are integrated things. A person studying in school learns not only what is in the curriculum. Side-by-side s/he learns while walking on the street, while involving with peers, while studying himself/herself. So, I don’t think formal learning alone can work. To enrich formal education both non-formal and informal learning have significant responsibility. In this sense formal learning can’t exist without informal and non-formal learning. All of these three forms have to be promoted simultaneously. Social organizations have to aware people of the importance of informal learning.
Researcher: Do you think non-formal and informal learner can compete with the people who come from formal schooling in the job market?
Respondent: I don’t think it will be a problem. When one has an equivalent certificate s/he can easily compete with others. Equivalent certificate means equivalent knowledge, skill and competence. But effective criteria have to be developed to assess such knowledge, skills and competence. If a valid institution assess in a fair manner all types of learners who are certified equally well. If we develop such type of culture, I think this will not be a problem.
Researcher: Madam, should the government allow them to fight for the government posts such as in Public Service Commission?
Respondent: I don’t know why the people are motivated to government posts. Competent people shouldn’t depend on the job created by others, rather they have to create job for them themselves. They can be entrepreneur, businessperson, anything as per their interests and capacity.
Researcher: Finally, how do you think we should validate informal and non-formal learning so as to enhance lifelong learning and continuing education?
Respondent: As I said already we have to develop a National Qualifications Framework at national level and that should be comparable to international level. Our education standard has to be made as equal as the standard of international level. Knowledge and skill assessment shouldn’t be limited to paper and pencil test. There should be effective, valid and reliable ability testing mechanism. For validation there should be clear assessment criteria. After rigorous experimentation policy has to be made to institutionalize it. It is not an easy task but if we can do it, it will certainly make a great contribution for a large group of disadvantaged people of the nation.
Researcher: Madam, thank you very much for providing me time and give valuable inputs.

Transcription of interview 5

Transcription of interview 5
Date: July 17, 2009 (Friday) Time 4 PM to 4:30 PM
Researcher: Sir, in your opinion, should we make formal, non-formal and informal learning equal? If yes, how can we do so? And particularly, if we have to provide freedom of choice for learners through three forms of learning equally well what should we do?
Respondent: If you take me as a reference, I learnt about 80% informally. Formal learning taught me just to read and write. We learn many things in our life such as behavioral learning, moral learning etc informally. The time of formal learning is very limited, just 5-6 hours in a day. Moreover, formal learning takes very short period of time of our life span. I think non-formal learning is a different side. But the problem is that there are no formal ways for formulizing informal learning. What I believe is that we should make informal learning equal to formal learning.
Researcher: How do you think we can make the three formal of learning equal?
Respondent: Well, the concept of making them equal depends on the context. But the answer of the question ‘how’ is difficult. In my opinion, it has to be started from political level. It needs a political commitment. In our country political parties are strong in the sense that they have good and unified cadres. They should be trained for educational purpose. Educational reforms should be the agenda of political parties.
Making the three forms of learning is a reform in education. If we see the countries who have adopted this strategy have done it in two ways. The first strategy is adding values to the existing system of education such as in curriculum, teacher education, teaching, learning, etc. The second strategy is that starting a new system of education – a complete reform. I think Nepal should adopt the second strategy because we have not touched the part of informal learning yet.
We can find some good practices of educational reform in international level. For example, Finland has done very good in education by focusing it education system on teachers. Teachers are at the center of entire education system. They are responsible for developing curriculum, giving moral education, raising social awareness, etc. We can see the example of Uganda as well. It is like Nepal but has done good progress in education. It started through political commitment. We also need to have a firm commitment at political level. The nation has to be fully devoted to bring such commitment into reality. The government has to create environment and all of us should work on this.
Including political leaders and their cadres all the citizens of this country have to improve their attitude. The best means of improving one’s attitude is informal education. So, a firm political commitment for education reform is obligatory.
Researcher: What do you mean by making the three forms of learning equal? Do you mean that we have to certify informal and non-formal learners as we have done to formal learners?
Respondent: No, it’s impossible. Giving moral education doesn’t mean giving certificates. It’s more often a socialization process. Moral education is not necessarily given in school. It can be through citizen orientation. For example, while providing citizenship to an individual we should give 2-3 days orientation. It can be either informally or non-formally so as to let them know what his/her responsibilities for the nation are. We have to promote such type of informal learning.
Researcher: Sir, in your opinion can we provide opportunity for the informal learning to enter into formal schooling? For example an individual who has never gone to school but claims that he/she has the knowledge equivalent to the Grade X student. Can we certify his/her knowledge and allow him/her to start his/her formal education from Grade XI? What kind of mechanism a county has to develop for this?
Respondent: Yes, we can do that and it has been doing to some extent in the form of open learning, private tests, etc. Even we have some very good examples where informal and non-formal learning have been recognized. For example, we have a professor who doesn’t have the experience of formal education even of Grade I but he has adequate knowledge to be a good professor.
Researcher: That was perhaps an exceptional case in which his/her outstanding performance was taken into account. The question is can we do this in a national scale?
Respondent: I think the nation should be able to do this. The main problem is culture and I don’t think it can be done through a single standardized tests. It needs different parameters. We have to go beyond that.
Researcher: People need to have their formal degree because without it they can’t be employed in the job market. Hence they have to lose social prestige and status. Then shouldn’t we certify them and open doors for further learning and employment?
Respondent: Certification is ok but main thing is enhancement of knowledge and skills. There are examples where people with higher qualification are unemployed or less employed or holding inferior position than the one who has relatively lower qualification. It is because they are more efficient than the so-called higher degree holders. People learn more than just to read and write. They have different skills and attitude. Certification should be on the basis of quality of learning of those skills. So certification should be done through proper assessment of knowledge and skills that are learnt informally and non-formally. So, in my opinion certification of informal learning can be done at national scale and is necessary.
Researcher: Who do you think should take the responsibility of assessing the skills and knowledge of informal learners for certification?
Respondent: I think it depends on the type of capacity to be assessed. If it is skill then there is already an institution for skill test that is CTEVT. It has to be promoted. I don’t think a new institution has to be established. From my research I have found that our institutions have potentiality but the culture of using such potentiality has not been developed. If such environment is created and the people are committed the existing institutions can perform this task. So the existing institutions have to be promoted and kept beyond the influence of selfish politics.
Researcher: What problems do you see to identify, recognize and validate the precious indigenous knowledge of our country?
Respondent: I don’t think all the knowledge of this type should be certified. Certification is an artificial thing. The main thing is recognition such indigenous knowledge and skills. Government should bring some schemes for recognition and the local government should promote such knowledge and skills. And, I am not in the position to say that all types of informal learning can be formalized. All types of knowledge can’t be assessed and certified. Through informal learning we need to change the entire social system of our country. So, it is impossible to achieve this goal by forcefully certifying all types of informal knowledge and skills.
Researcher: To create an environment conducive for enhancing lifelong learning and continuing education what additional provisions have to be made in Nepal?
Respondent: As I said already there should be commitment from the people from top to bottom level. We have to realize that we need to update our knowledge and continue to throughout our lives. I don’t think all of us are ready for this. Both government and public have some weaknesses. These weaknesses have to be overcome, especially by the political parties. Politicians have to realize it and fulfill their commitment.
Researcher: Can we identify all type of knowledge, skill and competence and put them under a single National Qualifications Framework? What problems and difficulty do you see in our culturally diversified nation?
Respondent: Certainly, it will bring a lot of difficulties and problems. Different variable may emerge. There may be much variation. Some undefined skills may come. They need time to be defined. There may be many problems but what I believe is that we have to do it. It’s possible. There are some hopes to because general people have been aware. Some of them are energetic and enthusiastic but we need to have commitment.
Researcher: Sir, anything you would like to say at the end of our conversation?
Respondent: It’s alright. Our education system is in confusion on whether to follow Western philosophy or Easter philosophy. So far as your attempt to take the three forms of learning in an equal footing, it’s great but to make it contributive you need to have diligence. All the best!
Researcher: Thank you very much sir. I will try my best!

Transcription of interview 4

Transcription of interview 4
Date: July 17, 2009 (Friday) Time 3:30 PM to 4 PM
Researcher: In terms of recognition and investment it seems that the nation has given importance only to formal education. Should we make the three modes of learning: formal, non-formal and informal equal? If yes, how can we make them equal?
Respondent: Though there is more investment in formal learning Non-formal learning has also got little investment. So far as the case of making the three modes of learning equivalent there is no doubt that they have to be made equal but the question of how to make them so is still not completely answered. Some documents have spoken on this regard. MOE has worked on this to some extent, for example, the School Sector Reform Plan. However, it is not enough. It needs to be discussed extensively in order to find it opportunities and challenges at level wise and discipline wise and some sort of qualification standard has to be maintained. To make informal and non-formal learner adjustable with formal learning some sort of bridge course should be completed.
Researcher: So, in your opinion we can certify the ones who have come from non-formal and informal background, isn’t it sir?
Respondent: Yes we can do. We can certify the ones who have come informally and non-formally as has been done by CTEVT. But certificate doesn’t necessarily mean that he/she is eligible everywhere. But on the basis of knowledge and skills acquired s/he should be allowed to go for higher education.
Researcher: If so, in your opinion if one has got certificate of B. A. equivalent after the assessment of his/her knowledge, skill and competence then should he/she be allowed to compete, let’s suppose, for section officer in the Public Service Commission?
Respondent: It’s an extreme case, but personally I am positive. There should be a system of assessing knowledge and skills of this type. It has to be systematized. There’s somehow a system for this for example private study and Open University. It has also encouraged non-formal and informal learning but mechanism has to be developed extensively. It has to be more flexible fo doing so. Some people have done masters without going to college, isn’t it an example?
Researcher: The case of providing the opportunity of assessment and certification for private students, especially by Tribhuvan University in Nepal, is in a small scale but the question here is whether we can develop a mechanism to include even indigenous and cultural knowledge at national scale who do you think should develop such mechanism?
Respondent: An umbrella body can be there according to disciplined and there can be many branches – one office only can’t do it. For example, there may be many aspects that have to be inculcated such as technical skill, vocational skill, general skill and other indigenous knowledge. So, separate branches have to be developed to include all types of knowledge and skill. The umbrella body can develop framework to identify national qualifications.
Researcher: Sir, in our society the products of formal learning have certificates; they have better chances of opportunity as a consequence they have better social prestige. If we certified informal and non-formal learners as equivalently as formal learners do you think they can compete with the formal learners and grab employment opportunities?
Respondent: If he she has ability and the certification is given according to such ability then, I think he or she is able to compete with the ones who come from formal schooling. I see no problem there. The people who have learned through their lives are able to get success. There are many things beside qualifications that help them solve their life problems. Academic qualifications that we accumulate through formal schooling are not only the major things for getting success.
Researcher: Obviously, people need to learn throughout their life which is technically called lifelong learning and continuing education. For enhancing it what provisions have been made in our country and what should be done for its further enhancement?
Respondent: There are no particular programs as such but you can see some initiatives such as non-formal education. It is provided in three phases which can be further enhanced. The main thing for this is that the nation has to provide venue and opportunity for lifelong learning. Whoever can do on their own should be provided with a minimum condition to flourish it. Lifelong opportunities should be created at the local level. At the central level resource centers have to be established. Opportunities have to be grabbed by the people so that awareness has to be created.
Researcher: Every professional-such as a teacher, a doctor, and an engineer- needs to update their knowledge and skills. What kind of strategy the government needs to adopt?
Respondent: It’s not only the responsibility of government. Both government and individual should equally be responsible for this. If the individuals are not active and willing to grab the opportunity government alone can do nothing. But government must provide venue for grabbing the opportunity. The policy, rules and regulations should facilitate and promote it. Moreover, there should be coordination among INGO and NGO, community organizations and private organization. Mainly government should play the role of facilitator and backward communities have to be identified and promoted to be able to grab the opportunities.
Researcher: What problems do you see if we validate informal learning in the context of Nepal where racial hierarchy is still prevalent? For example, the skill of a Brahmin to perform religious ritual and the skill of a cobbler to mend shoes may fall on the same level.
Respondent: I think if the skills of such types are made equal it will reduce social inequality and discrimination. All types of works/labor are equal so the workers/labors of all kinds should be treated equally. I don’t think that literate people should instruct others and others should work. If he/she has skills he/she can work independently and the society should create environment for this. I don’t think such provision of leveling the skills of all types will create conflict. In a sense such era of discrimination has ended. The oppressed group will resist if the member of such group are discriminated.
Researcher: Undoubtedly, Nepal is a diversified nation. There are various types of indigenous knowledge. How can we inculcate all of these indigenous knowledge and skills in a single National Qualifications Framework? How do you think we should manage them?
Respondent: The umbrella body that I have already talked should be responsible for this. I think our culturally and indigenous diversity are our valuable assets. If we promote them we can reduce external dependence of our country. So far as including the diversified indigenous skills and knowledge into a National Qualifications Framework is concerned I think the works has to done at local level first. I don’t think all knowledge and skills should be brought at the same place. National standard has to be made and implemented in a local context. I don’t think there will be unsolvable problems but enough endeavors have to be made. Different counties of the world have worked for this. I think we must do this ultimately.
Researcher: Sir, would you like to say anything at the end of our discussion?
Respondent: Well, as I have already said we have to recognize the non-formal and informal learning taking diversity and cultural differences into account. But we have to be committed on this.
Researcher: Sir, thank you very much for giving me your valuable times.

Transcription of Interview 3

Transcription of Interview 3
Date: July 18, 2009 (Saturday) Time 11: 18 AM to 12:10 PM
Researcher: Sir, Namaste!
Respondent: Sir, Namaste!
Researcher: sir, may I have your few minutes today?
Respondent: Definitely sir.
Researcher: Sir, I am going to interview you online! It takes about 30 minutes Sir.
Respondent: Alright sir. I am ready now.
Researcher: Sir, I think I shouldn't do the briefing of my research as you have guided me many of the times. Actually, the interview guide I have prepared now is based on the quantitative findings that I requested you to fill up two months ago.
Respondent: ok sir
Researcher: Sir, the first question: How can we make people free to acquire knowledge through formal, non-formal and informal means?
Respondent: People learn from their social and natural world every day. Society has developed different institutions to transmit knowledge, skills and competences necessary for life from different modes. Broadly, they are formal, non-formal and informal. The formal one was specialized, developed and expanded throughout the world after industrialization in Europe. This wave has been global and pervasive. However, most of the knowledge, skills and competencies have been taught and learned non-formally and informally. In the latter modes, there are no provisions of certification and accreditation.
Researcher: Among three modes of learning – formal, non-formal and informal – which mode of learning is more important in your opinion?
Respondent: Learning can be possible everywhere. In the course of interaction with other members of society and natural world, different knowledge and skills are generated and established. Formal education can and has been contributing for that. But non-formal and informal education can also contribute significantly to impart knowledge and skills to the learners. Therefore the modes need to be blended for betterment of the common people.
Researcher: O K sir. You said these three modes of learning should be blended. Can you elaborate this opinion sir? How is it possible to blend them?
Respondent: The certification institution need to overview different modes and develop a viable and feasible modus operandi. It will be possible only after blending. After certification, the learners can also join in formal education. Is not it sir?
Researcher: Yes sir. Sir, how can we recognize and certify informal and non-formal skills, knowledge and competences?
Respondent: Specifically we can set up an institution or modus operandi to recognize, certify and provide accreditation the learners through informal and non-formal modes. It would be better to provide options to the learners to take part in exam for their certification. If so, the learners can easily be ready to pay the cost for their certification. The institution should be established in the centre in the beginning. The model should be developed and tested in three districts in the first phase. After consolidation, it can be replicated to other districts gradually.
Researcher: Do you think such system of certification, if developed, helps to enhance lifelong learning and continuing education?
Respondent: Yes. I think it should be done in a phase wise manner. In the first phase, government needs to appoint a core team, train them and assess the pros and cons of three modes. Then different streams, curriculum, examination procedures and schedules should be developed and notified to the applicants. After thorough scrutiny of the learners/ applicants, the institution should give them equivalent certificate similar to that of formal educational institution. This will open the avenues to the informal and non-formal learner to keep on learning throughout their life.
Researcher: What type of curriculum do you want to develop for informal learners? If they are bound with curriculum then doesn't it become like formal one?
Respondent: What I mean is to develop a framework to assess their competence to certify. It would not be confusing if we give the term framework for different streams specifically, technical, professional or general.
Researcher: Yes sir. I understood. And sir, what problem do you see to identify and recognize the precious indigenous knowledge/skills and cultural knowledge of Nepal so as to certify the people who deserve them?
Respondent: The institutions need to synthesize the indigenous and cultural knowledge and skills. The people overlook the indigenous knowledge and skill. The richness of indigenous and cultural knowledge have not been compiled and compared cross-culturally. The investors are not that ready to incorporate them.
Researcher: Do you think the people who are from non-formal and informal background can compete with the ones from formal background, especially in the job market?
Respondent: I think they can also compete with the people with formal background. Some people having educated in engineering and natural sciences have switched to other sectors. Some of the people having informal education have done well. Due to expansion of the formal education, people have been hopeless. If we start certification and accreditation process, we can enkindle their hope again. NESP had also started the process and some farmers, carpenters and mechanics have been professors.
Researcher: Sir, what other provision should our nation make to enhance lifelong learning and continuing education?
Respondent: People think formal education is only education. When they pass certain degree, it will end. Majority of the people have no concept of lifelong education. First of all government and other stakeholders need to clear the confusion. The training curriculum needs to incorporate the essence of the lifelong and continuing education. Now there are different agencies to make public awareness. Every people need to update their knowledgebase to cope up with the changed context. For instance, the khalasis need to be literate and able to scrutinize the identity cards of the passengers. This can be applied in other walks of life. The different bodies of government and NGOs can contribute if we want to intervene through policy.
Researcher: Sir, thank you very much for such valuable opinions. Sir, is there anything you would like to add finally?
Respondent: I think it would be wonderful if you suggest a better model to certify and provide accreditation the informal and non-formal learners. It will be a proactive project. I wish your success in this endeavor.
Researcher: Thank you sir.

Transcription of Interview 2

Transcription of Interview 2
Date: July 15, 2009 Time: 1 PM to 2 PM
Researcher: What do you think the nation should do to make people free to acquire knowledge through formal, non-formal and informal means?
Respondent: Obviously, there is a worldwide struggle among the three modalities of education delivery. In formal education setting there is more formality. As the nation wants to be formal it focuses on formal schooling. State wants formality. It accepts bureaucracy and vice-versa. There is more funding in it. As the state has recognized it, it has got more importance. It deserves symbolic capital as stated by Pierre Bourdieu.
The prestigious and high earning employees are from formal learning. Those who came informally were found having contradictory opinion with the state. Change agents were found as the ones who went through informal schooling. The products of formal schooling were found change resist. As Bernstein, who propounded the concept of restricted and elaborated code, says that informal learners are more open and flexible. As they are not recognized by the state they want change.
On the other hand the people from formal schooling are restricted by the state structure. When one gets board first in SLC he doesn’t complains even if he doesn’t like the state policy as he is bound to obey it. It’s a dialectical phenomenon. So, there is a never-ending war between these two: change resists (formal learners) and change agents (informal learner). You can see unemployed people on the street, who are not identified; neither are they recognized by the state. It develops the tendency of skill exchange. Informal learners follow antenna culture. That is to say they open their mind to learn all the time. They learn on the basis of lived reality. In this way informal learning has greater scope and horizon in comparison to formal learning.
Power scientists Cohort and Habermas discuss about power relation. They claim that there is politics or power in everything. Formal schooling protects the state. Whatever the state wants the formal schools fulfill. If you weaken formal schools it weakens the state. So, the state has given the responsibility of protecting it to formal schooling. But we can provide the responsibility of protecting the state to non-formal and informal modalities as well but it needs a philosophical package.
Conflict is mounting in our country because the nation couldn’t identify …it couldn’t reach to the grass-root level and encompass the indigenous skills and knowledge. The state applied blanket approach in this diversified nation in the name of formal schooling that killed indigenous skills and knowledge. Even formal schooling couldn’t provide indigenous security. Consequently the conflict mounted in the nation.
To overcome with this problem the state should make intervention on the basis of context, content and culture. The three forms of learning should go in equal footing, I mean in a triangular approach so that it will be easier to ventilate from one form of learning to another. It will have multiple advantages. There will be the possibility of bubble economy. People will be self-sustained leading to the development of micro economy. People will be self-employed that will engender the feeling of recognition and respect in the society. If we are able to do so there will be true respect of all three forms of learning. It will not denounce the one and appreciate the other. The approach of appreciative enquiry would work on this regard.
Researcher: You gave some profound and appropriate philosophical background to my issue. I would like to ask a bit more specific question. In your opinion can we provide certification to non-formal and informal learning as equivalent to formal learning?
Respondent: Yes, we can certify non-formal and informal learning. You can see the example in the skill-test certification strategy of CTEVT in our country. It has recognized the skills of an individual. It’s a good practice. But we need to do it in a large scale at national level. It will increase royalty to the nation, increase employment opportunity and the cultural capital of an individual.
Researcher: As you said earlier there are precious indigenous knowledge and skills learnt informally in our country. Can we identify them and keep them in a national qualifications framework? If we can, what problems do you see and how do you think we can solve those problems?
Respondent: Two years ago we developed a National Curricular Framework. There are some problems and weaknesses in it. It has also talked about informal learning. It also talks about local curriculum. It needs to be analyzed critically. It has not given importance to non-formal and informal learning as equally as formal learning. It’s incomplete. There should be level wise ventilation.
In the past different principles were adopted to reach to the unreached group of the country. The principle of unity-in-diversity and equality-in-diversity couldn’t work properly. So we need to adopt the principle of equity-in-diversity. You can see this phenomenon (bringing parity of esteem in formal, non-formal and informal learning) through this perspective as well. The three forms of learning are different with different upbringings. Rather than making them one let them develop on their own equally. On the basis of appreciative enquiry, through the perspective of appreciative enquiry we need recognize them in equal footing. Everybody is important and everybody is different. Same thing applies to the case of three forms of learning.
Researcher: Sir, the major problem in our country is the social status. One of the determining factors of high social status is employment opportunity. As you said earlier the person from formal schooling hold prestigious job positions. In such case, how can we provide equal employment opportunity to the ones who come non-formally and informally?
Respondent: Well, you know, the concept of employment opportunity is relative. Even all formal learners do not want to be employed; rather they have the interests and ability to be entrepreneur or to be self-employed such as opening a motorcycle workshop. According to choice theory people select their work. Here it is not the case what job is given – but what he or she chooses to do. We shouldn’t make people dependent. The state has to let them choose. Our schooling should leave them in the world of work.
We can provide equal certification. Equal in the sense that – Bandura’s leveling theory doesn’t work here …. Our SSR has discussed about it a little on level-wise ventilation. There is a ventilation system between technical education and general education in different level in Japan. It is called accreditation. We started technical education in the past. As we don’t have technical education at university level there is no ventilation. For higher studies people are compelled to join formal mode or to discontinue their study. State has not given due emphasis to technical education. A little progress can be observed on distance education system. As you know One Year B. Ed on the distance mode has been recognized by the state. People have been promoted because of that degree. So, what I want to say is that it is a good practice but it cannot be achieved without philosophical guidance. The state has to inculcate all three forms of learning
Researcher: Sir, let me ask you a specific question. Suppose that a person has never gone to school but he/she claims that s/he has the knowledge equivalent to the one who has passed B. Ed. Can we give him or her admission to Master Degree? What problem do you see?
Respondent: You asked a very good question. This system is in the US. One can take the test of all semesters at once if s/he wishes. But the thing is that we have to follow natural rule of law. It should be done on the basis of cognitive development. You need to use the theory of Piaget’s and Vygotsky’s to deal with this. Piaget talks about individual constructivism whereas Vygotsky talks about social constructivism. If one has constructed knowledge individually it’s ok but society has to recognize it. Taking both of these philosophies into account your question has to be addressed. Social constructivism is also important. For example if a 5-year boy claims for Master’s admission the social constructivism opposes it. He needs to have his maturity as well. On the basis of cognition he is not developed so we can’t go against Vygotsky’s Zone of Proximal Development (ZPD) which is recent and no theory has been able to defeat it so far. So not going against the theory of Piaget and Vygotsky we can provide admission to the one who has not been through formal schooling. I see no problem there. You can see some such examples. Bal Krishna Sama didn’t have formal schooling more than I Sc but Tribhuvan University awarded him with PhD degree. Many people have done PhD on his works and life. So, I claim it can be done…
Researcher: The case of Bal Krishna Sama was unique. He was an outstanding personality, recognizing his outstanding ability and contribution he was awarded. Here the question is whether we should develop a mechanism where all Nepalese could have an opportunity to test their knowledge and skill and get certified and open up avenue for lifelong learning and continuing education?
Respondent: You raised a very good issue. The nation has to provide this opportunity to get his/her knowledge and skills certified. I agree with this point. We have to develop such mechanism to identify the knowledge and skill of an individual. If s/he is interested and ready to take the test then the nation has to provide this opportunity. But it has to done on the basis of cognition and social constructivism.
In order to develop a mechanism we need to do piloting from the parameter of equity-in-diversity. I think the result of piloting will be good. Observing the international practices I can claim that it is possible and will have multiple advantages. It will increase rate of return and employability. Furthermore it will reduce the cost drastically.
Researcher: What can we do to motivate people for lifelong learning and continuing education? For example, how can we make the people of all profession for example teacher, doctor, engineer, etc. enthusiastic to update his/her knowledge?
Respondent: We have to recognize skills and knowledge at first. The state and the immediate colleague have to recognize it. In selection process the state has to give choice. There should be right man in right place. The tendency of recognizing and putting right man in right place has not been established in Nepal so far. There is nepotism, favoritism and sycophancy in the country. People’s knowledge should be recognized and given them choice for proper job placement. Recognition will preserve and foster local and indigenous knowledge and skills.
The education system has been undergoing through the process full of discrimination. There is frustration even in formal schooling. Only a handful number of people have got advantages. People have not been in the right place according to their ability and interest. Formal schooling itself is in such limbo. So the condition in the case of informal and non-formal is very pathetic. That’s why there is conflict and the state has become fragile. On the perspective of equity-in-diversity the state has to give intervention only then it can give good results.
Researcher: Please make me further clear on how we can adjust informal and non-formal learners in the job market.
Respondent: In our Three-Year Interim Plan a little is talked on this regard. But it hasn’t taken the three forms of learning in an equal footing as we have been taking it now. The state has given less emphasis to less formal learning. This year’s government policy and budge didn’t give required importance. It will certainly increase conflict. For solving this, employability has to be ensured for non-formal and informal learning. There is challenge in education system. The state is not clear in philosophy of education system. Political parties do not have consensus in the type of education system. One (a political party) talks about pro-people education (janabadi sikshya) but it seems rather blur as no modalities have been so far postulated. That’s why we don’t have to spread big hopes to the people. As claimed by Earnest Hemingway ‘little is beautiful’. Let’s start from small things by piloting. Everybody needs to be made clear on this. Gradually it has to be increased. In the plan, policy and program it has to be inculcated. As per the interest and need of the people of diversified background we can give programs to the people no matter whether they are of Himal, Pahad or Tarai.
Researcher: Sir, let me ask you a specific question. If a person has come informally and accredited and certified equivalent to the B A level, can we allow them to fight for Section Officer as per the provision of Public Service Commission?
Respondent: Yes, we can. If he or she has the competency required by the state s/he should be allowed. There are 5-7 competences discussed by the scholar Morgan. If s/he is tested and deserves that competency it will not weaken and harm the nation. I claim it will be more advantageous to the nation. It makes the nation stronger. The system of reservation will ruin the nation as it never provides environment conducive for enhancing the competence of its citizens. However the competence is acquired, it could be either through non-formal or informal, if s/he deserves the competence s/he be allowed. But I again repeat the system of reservation is harmful to the nation.
Researcher: Can we list out all the knowledge, skill and competence that could be acquired through three modes of learning and keep them under a single structure?
Respondent: We don’t need to keep them in the same frame. But I am not telling that it is difficult to keep them in a single structure. Let them come from whatever mode is viable for them. We have no problem from where they come, what we need is competent human-power. We don’t care the tree of mango while selecting mango fruit, just we need sweet mango. I think I made you clear.
Researcher: Sir, thank you very much for giving me time despite your busy schedule.