Transcription of interview 5

Transcription of interview 5
Date: July 17, 2009 (Friday) Time 4 PM to 4:30 PM
Researcher: Sir, in your opinion, should we make formal, non-formal and informal learning equal? If yes, how can we do so? And particularly, if we have to provide freedom of choice for learners through three forms of learning equally well what should we do?
Respondent: If you take me as a reference, I learnt about 80% informally. Formal learning taught me just to read and write. We learn many things in our life such as behavioral learning, moral learning etc informally. The time of formal learning is very limited, just 5-6 hours in a day. Moreover, formal learning takes very short period of time of our life span. I think non-formal learning is a different side. But the problem is that there are no formal ways for formulizing informal learning. What I believe is that we should make informal learning equal to formal learning.
Researcher: How do you think we can make the three formal of learning equal?
Respondent: Well, the concept of making them equal depends on the context. But the answer of the question ‘how’ is difficult. In my opinion, it has to be started from political level. It needs a political commitment. In our country political parties are strong in the sense that they have good and unified cadres. They should be trained for educational purpose. Educational reforms should be the agenda of political parties.
Making the three forms of learning is a reform in education. If we see the countries who have adopted this strategy have done it in two ways. The first strategy is adding values to the existing system of education such as in curriculum, teacher education, teaching, learning, etc. The second strategy is that starting a new system of education – a complete reform. I think Nepal should adopt the second strategy because we have not touched the part of informal learning yet.
We can find some good practices of educational reform in international level. For example, Finland has done very good in education by focusing it education system on teachers. Teachers are at the center of entire education system. They are responsible for developing curriculum, giving moral education, raising social awareness, etc. We can see the example of Uganda as well. It is like Nepal but has done good progress in education. It started through political commitment. We also need to have a firm commitment at political level. The nation has to be fully devoted to bring such commitment into reality. The government has to create environment and all of us should work on this.
Including political leaders and their cadres all the citizens of this country have to improve their attitude. The best means of improving one’s attitude is informal education. So, a firm political commitment for education reform is obligatory.
Researcher: What do you mean by making the three forms of learning equal? Do you mean that we have to certify informal and non-formal learners as we have done to formal learners?
Respondent: No, it’s impossible. Giving moral education doesn’t mean giving certificates. It’s more often a socialization process. Moral education is not necessarily given in school. It can be through citizen orientation. For example, while providing citizenship to an individual we should give 2-3 days orientation. It can be either informally or non-formally so as to let them know what his/her responsibilities for the nation are. We have to promote such type of informal learning.
Researcher: Sir, in your opinion can we provide opportunity for the informal learning to enter into formal schooling? For example an individual who has never gone to school but claims that he/she has the knowledge equivalent to the Grade X student. Can we certify his/her knowledge and allow him/her to start his/her formal education from Grade XI? What kind of mechanism a county has to develop for this?
Respondent: Yes, we can do that and it has been doing to some extent in the form of open learning, private tests, etc. Even we have some very good examples where informal and non-formal learning have been recognized. For example, we have a professor who doesn’t have the experience of formal education even of Grade I but he has adequate knowledge to be a good professor.
Researcher: That was perhaps an exceptional case in which his/her outstanding performance was taken into account. The question is can we do this in a national scale?
Respondent: I think the nation should be able to do this. The main problem is culture and I don’t think it can be done through a single standardized tests. It needs different parameters. We have to go beyond that.
Researcher: People need to have their formal degree because without it they can’t be employed in the job market. Hence they have to lose social prestige and status. Then shouldn’t we certify them and open doors for further learning and employment?
Respondent: Certification is ok but main thing is enhancement of knowledge and skills. There are examples where people with higher qualification are unemployed or less employed or holding inferior position than the one who has relatively lower qualification. It is because they are more efficient than the so-called higher degree holders. People learn more than just to read and write. They have different skills and attitude. Certification should be on the basis of quality of learning of those skills. So certification should be done through proper assessment of knowledge and skills that are learnt informally and non-formally. So, in my opinion certification of informal learning can be done at national scale and is necessary.
Researcher: Who do you think should take the responsibility of assessing the skills and knowledge of informal learners for certification?
Respondent: I think it depends on the type of capacity to be assessed. If it is skill then there is already an institution for skill test that is CTEVT. It has to be promoted. I don’t think a new institution has to be established. From my research I have found that our institutions have potentiality but the culture of using such potentiality has not been developed. If such environment is created and the people are committed the existing institutions can perform this task. So the existing institutions have to be promoted and kept beyond the influence of selfish politics.
Researcher: What problems do you see to identify, recognize and validate the precious indigenous knowledge of our country?
Respondent: I don’t think all the knowledge of this type should be certified. Certification is an artificial thing. The main thing is recognition such indigenous knowledge and skills. Government should bring some schemes for recognition and the local government should promote such knowledge and skills. And, I am not in the position to say that all types of informal learning can be formalized. All types of knowledge can’t be assessed and certified. Through informal learning we need to change the entire social system of our country. So, it is impossible to achieve this goal by forcefully certifying all types of informal knowledge and skills.
Researcher: To create an environment conducive for enhancing lifelong learning and continuing education what additional provisions have to be made in Nepal?
Respondent: As I said already there should be commitment from the people from top to bottom level. We have to realize that we need to update our knowledge and continue to throughout our lives. I don’t think all of us are ready for this. Both government and public have some weaknesses. These weaknesses have to be overcome, especially by the political parties. Politicians have to realize it and fulfill their commitment.
Researcher: Can we identify all type of knowledge, skill and competence and put them under a single National Qualifications Framework? What problems and difficulty do you see in our culturally diversified nation?
Respondent: Certainly, it will bring a lot of difficulties and problems. Different variable may emerge. There may be much variation. Some undefined skills may come. They need time to be defined. There may be many problems but what I believe is that we have to do it. It’s possible. There are some hopes to because general people have been aware. Some of them are energetic and enthusiastic but we need to have commitment.
Researcher: Sir, anything you would like to say at the end of our conversation?
Respondent: It’s alright. Our education system is in confusion on whether to follow Western philosophy or Easter philosophy. So far as your attempt to take the three forms of learning in an equal footing, it’s great but to make it contributive you need to have diligence. All the best!
Researcher: Thank you very much sir. I will try my best!