Transcription of interview 4

Transcription of interview 4
Date: July 17, 2009 (Friday) Time 3:30 PM to 4 PM
Researcher: In terms of recognition and investment it seems that the nation has given importance only to formal education. Should we make the three modes of learning: formal, non-formal and informal equal? If yes, how can we make them equal?
Respondent: Though there is more investment in formal learning Non-formal learning has also got little investment. So far as the case of making the three modes of learning equivalent there is no doubt that they have to be made equal but the question of how to make them so is still not completely answered. Some documents have spoken on this regard. MOE has worked on this to some extent, for example, the School Sector Reform Plan. However, it is not enough. It needs to be discussed extensively in order to find it opportunities and challenges at level wise and discipline wise and some sort of qualification standard has to be maintained. To make informal and non-formal learner adjustable with formal learning some sort of bridge course should be completed.
Researcher: So, in your opinion we can certify the ones who have come from non-formal and informal background, isn’t it sir?
Respondent: Yes we can do. We can certify the ones who have come informally and non-formally as has been done by CTEVT. But certificate doesn’t necessarily mean that he/she is eligible everywhere. But on the basis of knowledge and skills acquired s/he should be allowed to go for higher education.
Researcher: If so, in your opinion if one has got certificate of B. A. equivalent after the assessment of his/her knowledge, skill and competence then should he/she be allowed to compete, let’s suppose, for section officer in the Public Service Commission?
Respondent: It’s an extreme case, but personally I am positive. There should be a system of assessing knowledge and skills of this type. It has to be systematized. There’s somehow a system for this for example private study and Open University. It has also encouraged non-formal and informal learning but mechanism has to be developed extensively. It has to be more flexible fo doing so. Some people have done masters without going to college, isn’t it an example?
Researcher: The case of providing the opportunity of assessment and certification for private students, especially by Tribhuvan University in Nepal, is in a small scale but the question here is whether we can develop a mechanism to include even indigenous and cultural knowledge at national scale who do you think should develop such mechanism?
Respondent: An umbrella body can be there according to disciplined and there can be many branches – one office only can’t do it. For example, there may be many aspects that have to be inculcated such as technical skill, vocational skill, general skill and other indigenous knowledge. So, separate branches have to be developed to include all types of knowledge and skill. The umbrella body can develop framework to identify national qualifications.
Researcher: Sir, in our society the products of formal learning have certificates; they have better chances of opportunity as a consequence they have better social prestige. If we certified informal and non-formal learners as equivalently as formal learners do you think they can compete with the formal learners and grab employment opportunities?
Respondent: If he she has ability and the certification is given according to such ability then, I think he or she is able to compete with the ones who come from formal schooling. I see no problem there. The people who have learned through their lives are able to get success. There are many things beside qualifications that help them solve their life problems. Academic qualifications that we accumulate through formal schooling are not only the major things for getting success.
Researcher: Obviously, people need to learn throughout their life which is technically called lifelong learning and continuing education. For enhancing it what provisions have been made in our country and what should be done for its further enhancement?
Respondent: There are no particular programs as such but you can see some initiatives such as non-formal education. It is provided in three phases which can be further enhanced. The main thing for this is that the nation has to provide venue and opportunity for lifelong learning. Whoever can do on their own should be provided with a minimum condition to flourish it. Lifelong opportunities should be created at the local level. At the central level resource centers have to be established. Opportunities have to be grabbed by the people so that awareness has to be created.
Researcher: Every professional-such as a teacher, a doctor, and an engineer- needs to update their knowledge and skills. What kind of strategy the government needs to adopt?
Respondent: It’s not only the responsibility of government. Both government and individual should equally be responsible for this. If the individuals are not active and willing to grab the opportunity government alone can do nothing. But government must provide venue for grabbing the opportunity. The policy, rules and regulations should facilitate and promote it. Moreover, there should be coordination among INGO and NGO, community organizations and private organization. Mainly government should play the role of facilitator and backward communities have to be identified and promoted to be able to grab the opportunities.
Researcher: What problems do you see if we validate informal learning in the context of Nepal where racial hierarchy is still prevalent? For example, the skill of a Brahmin to perform religious ritual and the skill of a cobbler to mend shoes may fall on the same level.
Respondent: I think if the skills of such types are made equal it will reduce social inequality and discrimination. All types of works/labor are equal so the workers/labors of all kinds should be treated equally. I don’t think that literate people should instruct others and others should work. If he/she has skills he/she can work independently and the society should create environment for this. I don’t think such provision of leveling the skills of all types will create conflict. In a sense such era of discrimination has ended. The oppressed group will resist if the member of such group are discriminated.
Researcher: Undoubtedly, Nepal is a diversified nation. There are various types of indigenous knowledge. How can we inculcate all of these indigenous knowledge and skills in a single National Qualifications Framework? How do you think we should manage them?
Respondent: The umbrella body that I have already talked should be responsible for this. I think our culturally and indigenous diversity are our valuable assets. If we promote them we can reduce external dependence of our country. So far as including the diversified indigenous skills and knowledge into a National Qualifications Framework is concerned I think the works has to done at local level first. I don’t think all knowledge and skills should be brought at the same place. National standard has to be made and implemented in a local context. I don’t think there will be unsolvable problems but enough endeavors have to be made. Different counties of the world have worked for this. I think we must do this ultimately.
Researcher: Sir, would you like to say anything at the end of our discussion?
Respondent: Well, as I have already said we have to recognize the non-formal and informal learning taking diversity and cultural differences into account. But we have to be committed on this.
Researcher: Sir, thank you very much for giving me your valuable times.